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Post by Acme Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:52 pm

Erm, two things i don't comprehend about God, actually one is about God and one is about the continuity of the (Holy) Bible.

1. Bible says, God knows everything and anything, past, present and
future. Furthermore, everything which had has and going to happen is
all in God's plans. Wondering, when God knows what and why things
happens why does God still let it happen? Well, if you're saying God
want to test us and let us choose, but then since God knows EVERYTHING,
why still let us choose since what will be chosen is already known?
(taking account that what God do and things which is know is
indisputable).

Derive: knowing from above, why God still let the coercion and violence to happen? (since its planned out) No worries, God is taking care of everything?

2. Bible says, after Jesus second coming, after the judgment of all the
livings and dead, after all those who arose and become the ruler of the
new sky and new earth in the New Jerusalem. Other than that, Satan (the
devil, big boss) will be held confinement in hell for 1000 years. So
was wondering, what is going to happen to Satan after the 1000 years of
confinement in hell? Since its not mentioned in the Bible, or maybe i "skipped" it through.

For those who use "Sunday Missal" only, there is some reading work need to be done.

Another question, what is the differences between Catholics and Anglican?
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Post by bumi dragon lord Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:59 pm

wah bro, it seems like no one really can answer your question, i though raph will do so ever since he is so....."bagus".....
i didnt say great...
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Post by Ms Kye Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:24 pm

Dear Acme,
the 1st and 2nd question need a deep understanding in Bible and life as a real. I will express my opinion on that later.
The differences between Catholic and Anglican.
Personally, i been to many other churches. But i believe and have faith in RC. I went to Anglican church in Labuan before this, so below are some of differences that i found:

1) priests can have wife and family
2) Anglican don't have rosary prayer (They don't give recognition to Mother Mary)
3) etc..
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Post by Acme Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:51 pm

I am a little more curious what is to be, since its unknown and not written in the Bible, in fact I'd say I've read through the whole Bible few times. So was wondering anyone have had dreams or vision and so forth about it? Or heard any testimonies regarding this?

As for the first question, i don't know how people see that matter, but what I'm asking is from the perspective of "theories" (what is written in Bible is ALL truth so I'd use the inverted commas) bibliographical which is accord to biblical way, in other words dead interpretation of Bible. As of showing by living His life, how you'd live does not matter with the question as everything is in his plan, so does how you'd live, He had seen and know them before we're born. It's probably a question for thought (persoalan), which may not necessarily have an answer.

I'm a Charismatic, been into Baptists, Methodist, Catholic, Calvary, Seventh-day Adventists, Congregation. Still a few more churches yet to visit such as Protestant, Anglican, Orthodox, Lutheran, Presbyterian. As for church most wanted to attend is Singapore's "City Harvest", a Charismatic church. So awed by the building itself.
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Post by Ms Kye Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:14 am

Dear Acme,
for the 1st question, i really think that it depends to how individual perceive God. For me, God is the smartest. Human cannot reveal the way God think. We are just a little part of Him (in Genesis; in the beginning God created only Adam and Eve. When they broke what God asked 'em not to do, then finally God release 'em to start new life out of Eden Garden). The thing that happen after that is, human produce human. ^^ Because of too much curiosity, then we keep on questioning why God..this.. and that?? God knows well, yea that is right. He doesn't want us to be far from Him, because the distance will lead us to curiosity which make us easily fall in to satan's trap. (eg; Adam and Eve eat the buah terlarang).

I think, we can discover something if we try to expolre more on Genesis and New testament on what God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son said to us.

what i can say now, is only about curiousity. What will happen if Adam and Eve didnt eat the fruit and still in Eden rite now? Human maybe only physically is human but missing the mind to think.
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Post by bumi dragon lord Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:00 pm

ms kye i have some facts on your 'curiosity'.

first of all adam and eve does not fall for curiosity. they know everything that God has created and God's commandment.

if they dont know what is what and fall into curiousity then how are you going to explain this verse from king james version, 2000

genesis, chapter2:verse20
"And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to
every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found a help meet
for him."

that shows that he knows God and his creation, he name them.


eve ate the apple because of deceive by satan, but adam fall not because of satan but temptation by eve.


genesis, chapter3:verse 4-7
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall
be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

from the moment of Adam was given the fruits, he can chose to eat it or not, he is not deceive by Satan by persuade by eve through action.

the sin was born not because of eve but Adam who make the choice to be sin.

they already have the mind but they are not planted with self desire.

somehow God planted a choice here for them to make, not does not make the choice because as you all know Satan is the most great angel after God, Jesus and holy spirit. human cannot resist Satan alone.
but Adam was not persuade by Satan, therefor he really can choose what he wants to do.

the forbidden fruit is a platform to option for us in life to make decision of good and bad, or to be precise, to know the truth and false statement. Satan has given a false statement.

Adam and Eve may die not because of the crime they have commit but because of self desire, read through the whole story then you will know.

they sew their own cloths, they know the differences of male and female, why? desire. what kind of desire? you know and i know if both of us does not wear cloths. thats the beginning of sin.

if you are saying curiosity, its not right due to they have no curiosity element is shown there. curiosity is good, i bet that they have the mind to ask what is what from the first place to God before making any decision. but the decision make after Satan's coming.

again curiosity is not concern!!!!!
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Post by Ms Kye Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:31 pm

Desire derive from curiosity. Desire vulnerable to temptation. Temptation is Satan's trap. Human fail in that.

Two things that i highlight at here. It might seem not relevant, but i try to make it simple in words not sentence.

(Which God give us) Curiosity -> Desire <-Temptation (Satan's trap)

2) Desire -> Conflict with Belief and instinct (the reason we choose)
** Human too weak, they rather choose satisfaction on their flesh not soul.

I know it is sound "what la???"
But.....
That is what i think.
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Post by >nocturnal< Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:19 pm

1 more difference btw Anglican n Catholic:
Catholic has the Holy Communion while Anglican does not. i mean the receiving the Body of Christ
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Post by >nocturnal< Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:20 pm

btw, Acme r u a Catholic???
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Post by Acme Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:57 pm

to Karoshi:
I'm a Charismatic, said above. ^^ A little correction here, Anglican does have the Holy Communion where the Catholics can have them, but the other way round is prohibited.

to Ms Kyle:
By the saying of God plans everything, and everything is in God's plan, yet why did got planned it that Adam and Eve had sinned and ate the apple? Why not planned that the snake wasn't there? Why did God keep Abraham and his family alive and escape from the flood, knowing people in today is will be awfully sinned?

God did not gives us nor Adam and Eve curiosity, but rather they got curious after their eyes are "opened". As we can see, the very first curiosity they had is they are thinking "why are we naked?" isn't it? The word "desire" can be found in many hymns and psalms where its the desire to God, so it conflicted with beliefs?

to Bumi Dragon Lord:
Some corrections, Adam named the livings by their shape, behavior and actions, not that he knows them because he named them after he is being created, and given the authority to guard and command everything on the air, earth and water.
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Post by bumi dragon lord Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:05 pm

Ms Kye wrote:Desire derive from curiosity. Desire vulnerable to temptation. Temptation is Satan's trap. Human fail in that.

Two things that i highlight at here. It might seem not relevant, but i try to make it simple in words not sentence.

(Which God give us) Curiosity -> Desire <-Temptation (Satan's trap)

2) Desire -> Conflict with Belief and instinct (the reason we choose)
** Human too weak, they rather choose satisfaction on their flesh not soul.

I know it is sound "what la???"
But.....
That is what i think.

you are saying that curiosity(positive)= desire= temptation (negative)

come on lah, you are messing with all the element lah......

curiosity is behavior where every one has in him/her to know what ever that caught their attention

desire is the 'needs' that an individual require to fulfill for his/her own purposes

temptation is also a need but different from desire that comes from external factor makes a person want to have it.

***three element of this has some how a bit similiarity but they are not related.

curious can be influence by external course or his/her own understanding to "know" more
for example: when you are interested in reptile like me, for sure you will read and experience them your self. for the time of doing so, you will found more things you dont understand, for sure you will not stop there but make moves to know more. thats when curiosity happen.

desire is internal course where a person need to fulfill his/her own needs.
for example: i am interested in reptiles so i would read more about them, know more about them and get into professional group to exchange and enhance my knowledge. for what i am doing all this susah susahnya? because i love the animals and would be willing to sacrifice my time and commitment for the future skill to protect these cute or poor creature that cant resist from human's harm. when love and passion come in you, you will need to make some move. not for myself but for the desire of protecting them and personal interest purposes.

where as temptation is external course that lure us to get to something but its not always the case and up to a persons faith(on God or on his commitment)
for example: i love these animals so much until i plan to learn to breed them. but the problem i have is i would have to import them from semenanjung. its costly and not worth. the babies that were produce may not cover the cost of import, meal, and etc etc cost. so i was given an idea from the breeder, "why dont you smuggler them eversice they are so small?" so i was given an option to deal with my desire out of curiosity. will i take it? that would be depends right on your faith. so then, the temptation comes in to make or force you to make a choice, the bad option that the breeder gave me is a temptation.
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